Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

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Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Dosko » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:28 pm

EDIT: Apparently somebody decided to remove a post I'd made earlier. Not sure why, seeing as how it pointed out the major flaws of Robby catering to wallet warriors and the kind of game that Helmet Heroes has become in my absence.

The fact that what I said was removed only shows me that Robby cares more to cater to a small fraction of the players, namely those who have spent absurd amounts of money, than the majority of those who enjoy this game.

That being said, now that I see Robby is far from the person I thought he was, I'm done with this thread. Let the minority rule. Apparently there's nothing the rest of us can do about it. Sorry if you're a new player, nothing's changing for you.

I really respected you, Robby.
Last edited by Dosko on Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Caefer » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:37 pm

cant you kill lotus eyes yet? they are between beholders and bricks. And anyway as a part of the supposed 1% i am very happy to see stronger stuff, he is adding two monsters anyway; a low level and a high level. I agree there needs to be a scaled monster between bricks -> lotus and, kreeton -> repguanas but other than that, the continued enjoyment of the game for the people who are spending a lot of time playing non-stop the grinding becomes ruthlessly harsh. Getting .1% every 6-7 kills makes grinding mind numbing. There needs to always be something to strive for something more that players can look forward to and achieve. I agree with you that we need more in between stuff but i disagree that robby should stop making stuff for the so called 1%.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby itblobboy » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:46 pm

I have to agree with Dosko...

We need to bring people up. The 1% should be secretly renamed the Carnelia Factor. :|

MIGHT I ADD... Levels no longer mean hardly ANYTHING. The entire point of the game is money for books. Any sucker can overcome level requirements when they can book the missing advantage from advanced armor.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby MisoSoup247 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:55 pm

itblobboy wrote:MIGHT I ADD... Levels no longer mean hardly ANYTHING. The entire point of the game is money for books. Any sucker can overcome level requirements when they can book the missing advantage from advanced armor.


Sadly I have to agree with this, game is still awesome though :cry: :lol:
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby itblobboy » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:58 pm

MisoSoup247 wrote:
itblobboy wrote:MIGHT I ADD... Levels no longer mean hardly ANYTHING. The entire point of the game is money for books. Any sucker can overcome level requirements when they can book the missing advantage from advanced armor.


Sadly I have to agree with this, game is still awesome though :cry: :lol:


I constantly get completely pwned by your level 196 archer KingDZiro guildie... His stats are superior to mine.

As a quick reminder, I'm level 422 everybody. I enjoy the game too much to fuss and threaten to quit over it, but that saddens me. I don't have anything against KingDZiro about it, btw.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby MisoSoup247 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:14 pm

itblobboy wrote: His stats are superior to mine.

I know that feeling... I told him how I felt about being surpassed in a matter of days since meeting him and he responded by challenging me to a jump contest.... to which he won.

Good ol' King D. Ziro.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SlapThatChicken » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:17 pm

Well another core problem is that only certain players can enjoy certain areas, can't one hit something while someone else can and mass killing the room? Too bad, out of luck, that person getting stronger and newer players can't even get one mob to reach up to where the high end players are.

I can agree right now it favoring players that already been around or have gotten too powerful for their own good to the point they trivialize the game greatly, most people if they see someone killing stuff in one hit while it taking them 6-12 hits to even get the kill, they would probably just up and rage quit the game cause it already near empty in most places cause so many players need the XP/money to get up there with up to date players.

Doesn't help that books eventually go from being way too expensive to "i can make 200 books a day" which means someone technically getting 30-50 level ups worth of stats while someone else in the back is just lucky to even level up at all and barely afford the next piece of armor.

It pretty much already a 1% game when you think about it, you can't ever catch the elite of elites and only they going to most likely get the kills on the newest enemies thus getting even stronger, leaving you with nothing left to enjoy as they take everything. You have to frequently use glass cannon builds to enjoy this game and that not good for game balance.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby itblobboy » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:27 pm

It's been suggested before to refund books and remove them...

Wonder what we'll do with all the new gold, though.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Seta » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:53 pm

i've actually felt this way for a while, in my opinion we don't need monsters stronger than Repguanna at this point when most players can't even fight it. i agree and support the idea to make more monsters in the inbetween power gaps.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SmilingFear » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:06 pm

I agree and disagree. I think that the continuous addition of stronger monsters is important, but I don't think that these monsters should drop the top tier gear, like Reps do. This just creates a bigger gap between the poor and the elite, which serves to drive the price of tickets up. In turn, this makes the game more p2w than anything. Any "noob" can drop 50 bucks into the game and instantly wreck things harder than someone whose actually worked for their 250 levels. Back in the day, as soon as I hit level 125 I started training on Stalkers, and was there for 150 levels. The exp was slow, but the payout was immense. Now, for the elite players to be able to dominate in both exp AND payout from the same monster, kind of ruins the whole "exp or cash" dynamic. You don't have to choose, you get both. And that's a very linear way for the game to be established. "Work up to the point where you can kill this certain monster, and then you're set with only killing that monster" rather than "work up to a point where you can choose whether to farm for exp or drops, and then continue to build your character accordingly." I guess the dynamic of building your character for that doesn't really apply as much as it used to though, with the dex cap we now have. But back before that was a thing I had more dex than I did str. My dex eventually reached 1337 and I don't even think my str had hit 1000 yet. This made competing for farm at Stalkers easier for me as a warrior, because I ran a great deal faster than projectiles.

It's like the game started off with realms of possibility, and as time continues to pass, those possibilities are dwindling, the game is becoming more linear, and a pay to win dynamic is being enforced into a free to play game.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby belding » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:28 pm

In a way I am excited for repguanas to be empty. IN A WAY. The people that can easily kill rep will be moving to the new monster and that will leave about 10-20 of us that don't go to reps because we a). don't want to get in the way of the elite or b). cant get a kill in with the elites one hitting, with a place to grow faster. But that means simply buying books.
itblobboy wrote:It's been suggested before to refund books and remove them...

Wonder what we'll do with all the new gold, though.


The problem is that there is nothing to use this gold on after you have the best gear and/or rares and/or outfit changes. Tickets are a possibility but you can only get so much with tickets. I bought a halo today because I found cheap tickets and it was the thing I had left to buy. Until new gear comes out there is nothing to spend money on except books, and new gear is a small bump in the road compared to buying books. I have worked hard to get what I have in the game, I have been playing for over a year (not all the time like some people, but a little bit almost every day) and I feel like I am way behind a huge number of people, which is ironic because I have a lot.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SOUL_SLAYER » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:49 pm

Am I the only one who thought:

"Hey, maybe it will be like a whale since it's so big. Maybe it's just the size?"
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Naruto » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:24 pm

I'd just like to point out that from Brick Monsters on wards there is:

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That's THREE different monsters that players could grind at before attempting to successfully grind at the Dark Beholder/Kreeton area.

If anything, I think its the power gap between Kreetons and Repguanas that are too large. Personally, as a mage with 1690 magic, I can take down Beholders and Kreetons alike in two or three hits but when it gets to Repguanas I have to double rage which gives me 2704 magic (1690 magic X 1.6) and yet it takes me 6-7 hits to successfully kill a Repguana.

The power level required to grind peacefully for Repguanas (3K to 4K) is a lot higher than Beholders and Kreetons which is why the players with a offense (Range, Magic, Power or Artillery) of around 1K to 2K are currently all bunched up together in the Beholder/Kreeton room.

With two servers, that means there's only two Beholder/Kreeton rooms whereas with Drillbots, Glords and Lotus Eyes, that's six different rooms that you can grind at before attempting to grind in the Beholder area.

Hopefully with the Kreetus boss update, the minion spawn in the boss room with be Beholders so that players at Beholder/Kreeton level have four rooms to potentially grind in, instead of the current two.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
The true issue at hand is not the amount of different power leveled monsters that currently exist. It's the quality of loot that drops. The best gear that drops from Beholders is the Beholder Shield whereas the full set of Repguana gear drops frequently from Repguanas. Having talked to YL (the one that left and was leader of Legendary), he said that he once got 2M worth in drops at Repguanas (because of the Repguana gear) in ten minutes.

The quality of loot that drops from the lower tier monsters simply do not compare to the ones that drop from Repguanas so if anything, Repguana gear dropping needs to be removed from Repguanas but seeing as how that would cause major discontent, the quality of loot that drops from the other monsters should be raised.


A Revision for the loot drop for Nightstalkers

Naruto wrote:Revised Drop List

Nightstalkers:

-Chunk Mace
-Mechanic Wing Bow
-Horned Helmet
-Monster Skull
-Wooden Metal Shield
-Thorn Bow
-Cone Helmet
-Eagle Staff
-Book of Dex

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $1925+$8225+$10500+$1505+$1470+$2905+$17500+$6300+$19250= $69580
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Sasquatch:

-Bat Wing Staff
-Mega Sword
-Diamond Studded Bow
-Superhero Shirt
-Winged Diamond Wand
-Magnesium Boot
-Watermelon
-Banana
-Blue Beanie
-Book of Power

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $15750+$16800+$23450+$5600+$8750+$2800+$42+$12+$49+$19250= $92503
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Bricks:

-Bronze Shield
-Stone Helmet
-Book of Defense
-Magnesium Armor
-Ancient Helmet
-Ancient Armor
-Ancient Legs
-Ancient Shield
-Demons Fury
-Book of Range
-Axe of Minions
-Ancient Battle Axe

*Drops for Bricks are fine as they currently exist. Would recommend a boost in drop rate or an increase in the spawn of Brick Monster as two rooms with a spawn of four-five Brick Monsters in each room are currently not sufficient to withhold the high and increasing amount of players level 200+ who can kill them with ease which promotes kill-stealing.

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $2170+$7700+$19250+$13300+$47250+$26250+$22750+$28700+$14000+$19250+28700+19250= $248570
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Drillbots:

-Adamantium Helmet
-Adamantium Armour
-Adamantium Leggings
-Future Helmet
-Future Armour
-Future Leggings
-Electric Katana
-Bronze Plate Armour
-Steel Boot
-Garbage Can Lid
-Rusty Scimitar
-Book of MP

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $15750+$10500+$8400+$68250+$42000+$33250+$30100+$2800+$1050+$875+$945+$19250= $233170
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Glords:

-Mushroom Helmet
-Spiked Shell Helmet
-Armour of Hatred
-Fallen Queen's Scepter
-Ice Blade of Gods
-Tropical Staff
-Nature's Bow
-Dino Blade
-Book of Magic

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $26250+$22750+$51450+$34300+$43750+$11900+$19250+$92750+$19250= $321650
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Lotus Eyes:

-Crusader Helmet
-Dino Scale Armour
-Cyborg Leggings
-Reptile Wand
-Indian Wand
-Mummified Axe
-Shaman Staff
-Skull Spear
-Two Handed Chunk Mace
-Assault Helmet
-Book of Range

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $35000+$66500+$53200+$3150+$12600+$71750+$50750+$4375+$4200+$60550+$19250= $381325
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Dark Beholders:

-Beholder Helmet
-Beholder Armour
-Beholder Leggings
-Beholder Boot
-Beholder Shield
-Beholder Wand
-Froster's Bow
-Dino Scale Helmet
-Relic Armour
-Imperial Leggings
-Book of Magic

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $206500+$159950+$125300+$31500+$101500+$61250+$40600+$99750+$83650+$99750+$19250= $1029000
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Kreetons:

-Skullcrusher Helm
-Skullcrusher Armour
-Skullcrusher Leggings
-Skullcrusher Boot
-Skullcrusher Shield
-Frosting Trident
-Element Staff
-Flaming Needle Bow
-Relic Helmet
-Imperial Armour
-Element Leggings
-Book of Defense

Value of items sold at Default Resale: $245000+$192500+152250+$52500+$129500+$122500+$51800+$133000+$120750+$98000+$19250= $1317050
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
I have compiled a list of all the drops that could be used as the loot drop list for monsters from Nightstalkers to Kreetons. The lower priced items will drop in a much higher frequency than some of the higher leveled items. I also decided to replace Slayerblade's idea of having Kreeton gear drop from Kreetons with Skullcrusher gear drop from Kreetons as after the big update coming in 1-2 weeks, I presume Kreeton will be the second or third highest leveled gear and as such, should not drop as loot.

Sidenotes:

*Beholder Gear and Skullcrusher Gear with the exception of the boots will have a 0.007% chance to drop as it would be unfair to have the higher leveled players hoard a large amount of that kind of gear. With the current drop rates and using books as an example which has a drop rate of 0.04%, I currently drop on average 2-5 books a day due to double drop and a luck pet which has 10 luck. This means that with a drop chance of 0.007%, it would be expected for 1-3 Beholder/Skullcrusher items to drop per day.

In my opinion, this seems to be a more or less reasonable drop list for the existing monsters due to the steep increase required for new gear, especially warrior gear.

Thoughts, suggestions, opinions, constructive critique and comments welcome.

-Naruto
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Proposed Loot Drop Income Graph

Image

The biggest jump on this graph is from the Lotus Eye loot price to the Beholder loot price, although in reality it would not be that big of a jump if the Beholder/Skullcrusher gear was set at a 0.007% drop chance.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Seta » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:47 pm

Quality of gear does come into the equation but like SmilingFear said i think it's cooler when the Monsters that give the best exp don't drop the best stuff. i think in a way people should have to make the choice between enemies that give better exp or monsters with better loot pools and better drop rates.

in my opinion it helps keep the game more diverse and not just about trading one monster for another.

i'm not saying just because something gives the best exp it should not have a decent loot pool but for the sake of a less non-linear cookie cutter experience the monsters with the best loot don't also give the best exp vice-versa.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Shubhank » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:52 pm

I am also with dosko... Realeasing more and more powerful monster when only few people can kll them
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SlapThatChicken » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:01 pm

The amount of exp going to have to be really significant to outweigh what any best possible loot is doing by some other monsters, as of right now, books start to be the main focus of the game, you don't buy enough books, you can't do anything, pretty much a fact cause even if you were level 450, if all you had was your own stats and not books you still couldn't kill repguanas easily.

The game really needs a better balance everywhere, right now most rooms can only hold up well against 2 players, sometimes not even that and just 1 player at a time and the spawn rate would still barely can hold them...

This means when a new update occurs, less you are one of the best of the best, you not going to get to kill that newer monster all that often cause the "1%" showed up and murder everything with ease while it taking you one minute or two to win if you had one to yourself.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby itblobboy » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:36 pm

SlapThatChicken wrote:even if you were level 450, if all you had was your own stats and not books you still couldn't kill repguanas easily.


I can confirm this, and I've even bought hundreds of books myself.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Sintoque » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:58 am

The 1% just don't make loud noise, even if they did, it's only 1% of the crowd. So I personally prefer to just grind whatever thrown into the game, improve my stats so I don't die and can kill fast. That's pretty basic strategy.

Yeah I looking forward for the updates with more powerful monsters, hopefully it will be fun to grind. I'd leave repguanas and move on to the new area. Just as when repguanas made their debut, the 1% don't bother with beholder/kreeton anymore and move on.

Let's the game grow. You all will catch up later.
⚛ D U N A M I S ⚛


IM JUST STILL LURKING
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby YinFO » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:00 am

Sintoque wrote:The 1% just don't make loud noise, even if they did, it's only 1% of the crowd. So I personally prefer to just grind whatever thrown into the game, improve my stats so I don't die and can kill fast. That's pretty basic strategy.

Yeah I looking forward for the updates with more powerful monsters, hopefully it will be fun to grind. I'd leave repguanas and move on to the new area. Just as when repguanas made their debut, the 1% don't bother with beholder/kreeton anymore and move on.

Let's the game grow. You all will catch up later.


I actually don't need to post because of this.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby coke_na_rc » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:49 am

YinFO wrote:
Sintoque wrote:The 1% just don't make loud noise, even if they did, it's only 1% of the crowd. So I personally prefer to just grind whatever thrown into the game, improve my stats so I don't die and can kill fast. That's pretty basic strategy.

Yeah I looking forward for the updates with more powerful monsters, hopefully it will be fun to grind. I'd leave repguanas and move on to the new area. Just as when repguanas made their debut, the 1% don't bother with beholder/kreeton anymore and move on.

Let's the game grow. You all will catch up later.


I actually don't need to post because of this.


and this
only few can kill repguanas, but most on Dunamis :lol:
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Beat that
Spoiler: show
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby plak&shlak » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:57 am

i support.. but i also said that there should be monster that is stronger from sasquatch and weaker from brick..
and monster that is weaker from beholder and stronger from lutos.. and also somw weaker then repguana and stronger then kreeton
without that people will grind in beholder a lot of time untul get repguanas.. so the beholder is crouded.. so much crowded that some people come to the brick...
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SlapThatChicken » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:57 am

I think what we asking is not only more or less make it easier to grind up to the 1%, more better spawn rate, more areas, more monsters to work with instead of needing a super power jump in stats, etc.

Catching up isn't usually the problem, more so it gets to the point that the game needs to keep up with the 1% that destroys everything. If someone can destroy a repguana in one shot, what then? Make a monster with super HP that has 5k power and 5k defense? The top tier place will always get destroyed so even if we catch up, it wouldn't make a lick of difference less you can beat those guys when they show up to grind again.

I think we might also have to slow them down, which I dread to even think it but the big players may have to suffer from something called diminishing returns so there be no need to eventually need a 2 million HP boss with 10k power and 25k defense. I don't like the idea of putting that in though cause it make them believe they getting much less for the same effort.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Caefer » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:04 am

Once the game starts to diversify, adding in fishing and mining and stuff like that, the grinding will become less of a priority and players will be able to spend their time getting good at other stuff. I dont think this will be as big an issue as you all think.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby SlapThatChicken » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:11 am

Depends on how you look at it, also depends on how fishing, mining, etc would benefit the player, if it just mostly for fun, then it very likely the big guys will just blow stuff up again. Though would be nice to see if fishing is going to be very rewarding as right now the best way to make money is usually camped so much by so many other players trying to catch up to the big guys that it getting hard not to turn the game into a unfriendly competition just to stay in the game.
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Re: Robby, Don't Make This A 1% Game.

Postby Seta » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:08 pm

Yea, in my opinion this game needs to focus more on creating monsters for the majority of players and less on the 1%. This doesn't mean Repguannas should be the last high tier monster but i think the game could benefit from waiting longer until the next most power monster is introduced.

in my opinion Narutos loot graph seems completely bias as you notice the biggest jump in loot quality just happens to be where he's currently at. That and it's a completely boring linear formula. it'd be better if loot quality varied on monsters so that highest exp doesn't always mean best loot. For the sake of balance it should definitely be close but that doesn't mean it has to be cookie cutter. this game is more than just about advancement it's about the adventure.

i think Robby has designed the loot pools well enough so far, why change it?
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