NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby jamman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:45 am

Those of us who leveled with Carn put substantial time into it. Removing that would be unfair to the "certain few of us". I am fine with it being gone now but at the time I did not know it was a glitch and leveled there for many hours.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Contracter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:56 am

I would like robby to post on this thread because carn couldn't have been a glitch... the exp is rubbish now and if robby intended it like that everyone would have just grinded lotuses and beholders.. seeing as their hp doesn't regen and you can kill them in a second....carnelia would have been obsolete before it was put in...change the name of this theard to robby we want answers
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby MasterYi » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:55 am

Contracter wrote:I would like robby to post on this thread because carn couldn't have been a glitch... the exp is rubbish now and if robby intended it like that everyone would have just grinded lotuses and beholders.. seeing as their hp doesn't regen and you can kill them in a second....carnelia would have been obsolete before it was put in...change the name of this theard to robby we want answers



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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Gret » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:17 am

It WAS glitched. I didn't know about it earlier because I wasn't strong enough to fight Carnelia, but as soon as I saw how it worked with the Giant Goo Cube I knew it wasn't supposed to be like that. Why would the Heropedia say "X Experience" if it was giving like a hundred times that, and does it really seem normal that people level 500+ are leveling faster than a level 100?
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby itblobboy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:37 am

Wait, so now I can enjoy this game again?

Damn, everyone else who used it is way too ahead of me. :|

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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby MasterYi » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:45 am

Gret wrote:It WAS glitched. I didn't know about it earlier because I wasn't strong enough to fight Carnelia, but as soon as I saw how it worked with the Giant Goo Cube I knew it wasn't supposed to be like that. Why would the Heropedia say "X Experience" if it was giving like a hundred times that, and does it really seem normal that people level 500+ are leveling faster than a level 100?



I just don't get how you could not know, I mean. Everyone else knew, and we talked about Carnelia all the time. And made threads about it , it wouldn't matter if someone was AFK there if we only got 700 xp for it.

Hah, and it was like this for months, and all the HOF lvls went sky high after Rob added Carnelia, how could you not know, lol.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby robby » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:50 am

Hmmm.. Yes Carnelia XP has been changed, and may still need to be fixed some still. The XP was never intended to stack like that, it was supposed to be a fixed amount. It'd be nice it I could remove any XP gotten from it, but there's no way of knowing exactly how much everybody got from it. =/
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby SlayerBlade » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:04 am

robby wrote:Hmmm.. Yes Carnelia XP has been changed, and may still need to be fixed some still. The XP was never intended to stack like that, it was supposed to be a fixed amount. It'd be nice it I could remove any XP gotten from it, but there's no way of knowing exactly how much everybody got from it. =/



yeah, there is no way of knowing plus would you really do something like that at the chance of screwing up 100's of people accounts?
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby MasterYi » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:42 am

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Remove the xp? We spent hours and hours there, that's unfair.


Luckily you can't know exact how much xp we got, so .. pjuuh.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Contracter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:52 am

Gret wrote:It WAS glitched. I didn't know about it earlier because I wasn't strong enough to fight Carnelia, but as soon as I saw how it worked with the Giant Goo Cube I knew it wasn't supposed to be like that. Why would the Heropedia say "X Experience" if it was giving like a hundred times that, and does it really seem normal that people level 500+ are leveling faster than a level 100?


:lol: i said gret didnt know because he was an archer
and i agree with the fact its a bit wierd people 500+ level faster than lvl 60-300
but back to my point about how carn.. even if it was intended to give a fixed rate the rate is such crap that the str/range/magic required to kill carn quick enough to get a little exp... you could shred to bits the beholder population.
dont mean to be a broken record its just so obsolete 8-)
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Metalmorphosist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:53 am

Or just add Carnelia as a regular walking-around monster but make her stats a small bit lower. Then you can add Carnelia as a multi-spawning monster :D
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby 404 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:13 pm

robby wrote:Hmmm.. Yes Carnelia XP has been changed, and may still need to be fixed some still. The XP was never intended to stack like that, it was supposed to be a fixed amount. It'd be nice it I could remove any XP gotten from it, but there's no way of knowing exactly how much everybody got from it. =/


You uh....you could have a day set in the future when the game is officially out of beta, where you revert everyone back to level 1...but then we'd lose all our rare items and stuff, as well as things we've bought from payvault.

So yeah, between a rock and a hard place.

I'd say the easiest thing to do would be to roll back everyones stats back to before Carnelia was added in, but not mess with our items/cash.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Gregore » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:27 pm

Since kill count is recorded, I think a fair amount of compensation could be calculated based on Beholders. Every change made to the game is unfair to someone. It's easier for me at level 200 than it was to Blob when he was there. The Carnelia change, especially considering it was an error, was pretty drastically unfair. It was a rich get richer sort of thing, like a railroad monopoly. Effort was required, but so was timing. Imagine where Jerek would be if Carnelia had been like that when he was on grindahol?
I think it'd be fair to try to mitigate that.
It'd be wise, too, if the goal is to keep people engaged in the game. Beyond fairness, the hope of attaining ranking on he board is a driver for many players. If that seems improbable due to a lack of an advantage others enjoyed, then players may more likely give up on the game. Do the number 2 and 3 guys think they have a chance at number one? Does anyone else think they have a shot at the board now?

A big mistake was made. One that there is no perfect solution for. Whatever choice is made in response is going to make somebody unhappy. However, I don't think doing nothing is the right choice. Nor is taking away all the Carnelia XP. A middle solution must be found, one that makes no one perfectly happy, but evens the playing field somewhat and addresses, in part, the issue of level despair.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby RoySamuels » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:57 pm

Gregore wrote:Since kill count is recorded, I think a fair amount of compensation could be calculated based on Beholders. Every change made to the game is unfair to someone. It's easier for me at level 200 than it was to Blob when he was there. The Carnelia change, especially considering it was an error, was pretty drastically unfair. It was a rich get richer sort of thing, like a railroad monopoly. Effort was required, but so was timing. Imagine where Jerek would be if Carnelia had been like that when he was on grindahol?
I think it'd be fair to try to mitigate that.
It'd be wise, too, if the goal is to keep people engaged in the game. Beyond fairness, the hope of attaining ranking on he board is a driver for many players. If that seems improbable due to a lack of an advantage others enjoyed, then players may more likely give up on the game. Do the number 2 and 3 guys think they have a chance at number one? Does anyone else think they have a shot at the board now?

A big mistake was made. One that there is no perfect solution for. Whatever choice is made in response is going to make somebody unhappy. However, I don't think doing nothing is the right choice. Nor is taking away all the Carnelia XP. A middle solution must be found, one that makes no one perfectly happy, but evens the playing field somewhat and addresses, in part, the issue of level despair.


I didn't want to mention it either, but I agree. There will be more of a want to not play because of how crap Beholders xp is to players over level 500. It would take way to long to level just grinding.
I always thought that Carn was a bad idea, and something had to be done, but this was out of no where, and rolling back xp can cause serious, serious problems. There must have been a better approach to this?
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby jamman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:58 pm

I would agree to a point that the playing field should be leveled if the glitch was something held in secret by the higher level players. The fact that we were using carnelia in such a fashion was made quite clear and most players understood what was going on. Someone would simply have had to come to the area to notice a player hitting carnelia consecutively and then allowing the health to recover. I know I would readily tell players what I was doing if they inquired since I thought it was all part of the game. There was always someone there too, by the end numerous players had built up enough strength to battle carnelia.

In order to make it fair if you are worried about the hall of fame I would be okay with a level retraction if I kept all the points associated with my book buying and leveling. But since it is impossible to know what levels I got while at Beholders or elsewhere or from Carnelia this ultimately would not work. I know for myself a main reason I kept on playing at the rate I did and used the payvault was the allure of being able to kill Carnelia.

Mainly everyone was fine with this or was able to deal with it when they figured it was part of the game but now that it was realized to be a mistake some people want action. I spent countless hours doing what I thought was legitimate leveling and would hate to see that removed. It would be unfair to penalize players now for something that was essentially common knowledge to a large portion of players.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Sintoque » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:53 am

I was i bit in confusion regarding Carnelia for a few days back. But now I think I understand.

I started playing after Carnelia already in place and currently just built enough strength to be able to kill her.

At first I thought Carnelia xp stacking was a brilliant idea from Robby for the game. I built up my levels, carefully allocated my character's strength, defense and skills just for the purpose to be able to kill Carnelia and thus benefit from this xp stacking to level up further.

In fact, player's interactions, particularly among high level players seemed unique to this game, I must say was as result of Carnelia. Carnelia was a brilliant game's programming to entice and motivate players to stick to this game for hours and hours.

And then it occurred to me it was a glitch!

It is a huge let down, being a programmer myself.. I was like, wtf?

I'd say Robby, you could consider bring back the xp stacking, and if you think it makes the game unbalance, balance it however you want, but xp stacking for the boss like Carnelia, is brilliant.
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby CandyNutJob » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:00 am

MasterYi wrote:That's why we'll do.


That is why we will do.

You mean "That's what we'll do"

Learn English scrub

I had to MasterYi :lol:
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby coke_na_rc » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:52 am

if you'll ask me, i too didn't know that the stack of xp on carny was glitch all this time, and didn't even know that xp stacks on carny till i try grinding her..

i also disagree with the rollback of level since carnelia came ( because when i start playing HH, carny was in the game so ill be back to level 1? :lol: )

how bout the efforts and time we've spent if that rollback happens?.. what a lovely suggestion there..

well, HAPPY HELMET HEROES playing! ;)
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Contracter » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:03 am

i just have one question.. when the game is out if beta every one will be level one??? :o :o doesn't make sense to play until it's not in beta.. if this is the case
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Gregore » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:35 am

I'm going to reiterate, because I think people are still taking an either/or position, that it doesn't seem like the best (which is not the same as perfect or ideal) solution is neither to do nothing nor to do a complete roll back of levels. The most effective use of the community's collective brain power at this point would be to discuss what the best solution would be rather than railing against the extremes.

I think we can all agree that neither are the best solution available to us. Doing nothing makes the leader-board meaningless for the foreseeable future. Rolling back all the levels made on Carnelia is highly unfair, undoing months of play for several people.

Sintoque gave one possible, and simple to implement, solution- simply bring Carnelia back to her errored ways. That may not be a bad thing- it's still unfair to those who grinded like mad before she appeared, but everyone else has already adapted to the situation. It's important to remember that many of our finest innovations occur, in part, by accident. Our interactions with the world create things we did not preconceive, and therein lies one of the larger joys of creation- to see what is eventually created, not to see an exact replica of what we foresaw be made tangible.

Brainstorming here of some other possibilities:
- Another, separate, leaderboard for guilds and players that excludes guilds with members and players who were able to benefit from Carnelia.
- Some mathy guestimate formula for roll-back based on a player's total kills + likely break-down of those kills among the non-Carnelia monsters.
- Voluntary roll-back based on an honest self-estimate. (May seem crazy, but given that your level after using Carnelia will be highly incomparable with the rest of the people who play this game after a few months, and assuming you enjoy competition, why wouldn't you do so to make your success legit?)

I'm going to stop brain-storming, but I think y'all should continue to do so instead of discussing two untenable choices. Currently, of the available options, Sintoque's seems the simplest and appears to do the least harm. Unless someone comes up with a better idea- bring Carnelia back to what she was (to allow you to peer at my bias, I have no interest in getting on the Carnelia train, but it seems the least damaging option to the game as a whole).
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby MasterYi » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:59 am

Contracter wrote:i just have one question.. when the game is out if beta every one will be level one??? :o :o doesn't make sense to play until it's not in beta.. if this is the case




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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby RoySamuels » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:00 pm

Wait, do games like this get resetted when Beta is over..?
Do we keep our payvault and skill points?
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Tofu » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:02 pm

MadLyfe wrote:I like 404's suggestion.


So do i ;)
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby Gret » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:30 pm

No one's getting reset after beta, don't worry. :o
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Re: NOOOO! AND YEEES! Carnelia won't stack xp ever again!

Postby RoySamuels » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:45 pm

Gret wrote:No one's getting reset after beta, don't worry. :o


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